Load the modern Miroku made Winchester 1895 .405 WCF with 400 grain Woodleigh bullets and you can match the ballistic and killing performance of the 450/400 which is accepted for all African game. A 265 grain bullet at 2200 fps with a 3" inch 100 yard setting will be down 1 inch at 200 yards and 9" at 250 yards 20 inches at 300 yards. Besides I have a number of same cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures for a number of rifles and handguns.. Though the .45-70 Government cartridge has been in production since 1873, there was a time when a new rifle chambered in that cartridge just wasnt offered. But speaking of wild boar, Boddington said with the standard 300-grain load its lights out on hogs, and it certainly has enough energy to tackle the biggest North American game. Tips, techniques, and equipment are applied to these classroom discussions on how to become more proficient and successful at making long-range shots while hunting with AR-platform rifles. The Winchester Big Bore action can easily go to 50,000 psi and as we will see that makes a big difference in velocity and power. They really liked the speedy lightweight bullets offered in .25, .270, 7 mm and .30 calibers that smacked deer down at a quarter mile. FLAT SHIPPING! I shot an antelope in the butt at 125 yards or so with the same load now they are small animals but that bullet went forward the entire length of the goat and stopped under the chest hide. The 444 Marlin is loaded in the Marlin action to about 44,000 psi. HOGDROPPINGS! The .444 Marlin Ammo was created in 1964 when the market needed a big bore cartridge for level-action rifles. Formally known as the .45-70-405relating caliber-powder charge-bullet weight specificationsthe cartridge was commercially known as the .45-70 Government, and that 405-grain lead bullet travelled at a muzzle velocity of just about 1400 fps, though a heavier 500-grain bullet was soon employed. It was an interesting matchshoot whatcha brung, provided that it is a lever-action or single shot rifle with iron sights. While the .45-70 Government may get the glory, Marlin's .444 is still a mighty fine cartridge. Reply Glittering_War7622 . I didnt have any 225 grain 44s to run tests on, so I jumped to 240 grainers. SEE IT. and 30.2" low at 300 yards. Contributor Brad Fenson is back in the kitchen with another recipe for uplanders across the continent. Bullet weight: 405 grains. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .308 Winchester round averages out to 2620 ft-lb, while a .45-70 Government round averages out to about 2270 ft-lb. 444 Marlin VS 45-70 Trajectory. John Moses Browning, a name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester 1886 Lever Action. The decision may now be influenced by availability of both rifles and ammunition, with the breakup of the parent company which owned Marlin (thankfully Marlin has been purchased by Ruger). Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. Always slug you bore when in doubt. And since I used mostly cast bullets I never tested the various jacketed 240s in the Marlin, because it sounded so logical. When the Winchester M1895 was discontinued in 1936, the cartridge was considered obsolete. Mag..375 Ruger vs. .375 H&H Magnum7mm-08 Remington vs. .280 Remington .280 Remington vs. .280 Ackley Improved 7mm vs. .30 Caliber6.5 Weatherby RPM vs. 6.5 PRC.338 Win. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? .405 Winchester.408 CheyTac.416 Remington Magnum.416 Rigby.416 Ruger.43 Spanish.444 Marlin.44-40 WCF.44-77 Sharps.45 Raptor.450 Bushmaster.450 Marlin . Shop rifles for hunting medium game and predators from 50-300 lbs including coyote, hogs, whitetail deer and antelope. Winchester followed up on the success of the cartridge by offering it in their Model 1885 single shot rifle. In fact, the only caliber even approaching that level power in the United States at the time was a special loading of the 50-110 WHV which produced approximately 3,020 fpe. I think the sectional density issues have been solved. Your choice of sites is up to you, but if shots are 100 yards or less the red dot is a good choice. Note: some of the links below are affiliate links. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads. Today the .444 has a small but staunch following among lever action big bore enthusiasts. I have an 1895 in 30-06 that is a very good rifle, accurate with factory loads and carries well for a day in the woods. It was the most powerful lever-action cartridge available until the .444 Marlin was introduced in 1964, and was highly regarded by U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt during his safari in East Africa. Hornadys current load throws a 300-grain pointed softpoint bullet at 2,200 fps out of this rifle, and for once the chronograph figures I got exactly matched the book specs. Richard Lees excellent book MODERN RELOADING, 2nd Edition gives the following information on heavy bullet loads.pgs..431/432. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. Though its on the light side and has a relatively low sectional density for thick-skinned dangerous game like buffalo and elephant when compared to cartridges like the .375 H&H and .416 Rigby, hunters have used the .405 Winchester to successfully take just about every species of dangerous game over the years. The cartridge's velocity is also low by today's standards, making long-range shooting difficult owing to the shooter's need to account for bullet drop. The cartridge and the rifle enjoyed moderate success here in the States as a bear and elk rifle. They can take that '06 and convert it to a .411 Hawk. I did not win the side match; my friend who goes by Yakima Red in CAS shooting, beat me by hitting his 83-yard jug with the first shot from his 1894 Winchester in .30-30. Both the cartridges are suitable for up to 200 yards. to commemorate Roosevelts safari. Because most human minds like to put information into little boxes and once stored doesnt like to run automatic comparisons of information. See the embedded video. Our price: $59.99. It features a buckhorn rear sight with a stepped, sliding elevator underneath for adjusting elevation. The finest bullet I use now is Noslers #44250 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle and handguns. But trajectory is just a number. The checkering is done in a bordered point pattern, and its very nicely executed. Formally known as the .45-70-405relating caliber-powder charge-bullet weight specificationsthe cartridge was commercially known as the .45-70 Government, and that 405-grain lead bullet travelled at a muzzle velocity of just about 1400 fps, though a heavier 500-grain bullet was soon employed. I'm not trying to be beligerant in any way, I am simply asking you guys to show me compared ballistics. What is your level? | Friends of Billy Dixon As befits a lever action of its era, there are no sling swivel studs. In essence the rimmed .444 Marlin is an elongated .44 Magnum (the case length is 2.225 inches, with an overall length of 2.550 inches), as it uses the same .429-inch diameter bullets as the classic revolver cartridge, albeit at a much higher velocity. Unfortunately, Winchester made a number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture. Mag. (it slugged at .414 groove) I recently sold the CZ, (age is catching up to me) but in the round-about trade, wound up with a miroku 95. Only a five inch difference at 300 yards and 2 inches at 250 yards my, my. Im not sure a 200 grain 44 bullet would hold together on a large animal at that velocity, but surely the right cast bullet would. It was dropped from the Winchester stable in 1936, and ammo companies sealed its doom in 1955, ceasing loading it. On Wednesday, the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) sent a notice of intent to sue to the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) for alleged violations of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), due to the hunting of gray wolves in Wyomings Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest. And believe what they read. The sad part is I believed all this for years. The Barnes 300 gr Buster at 2,150 fps is pure penetration in the 444 Marlin and I highly doubt the Weldcore would prove to be a better load than the Barnes on large game including big bears. did not endure is that it used an almost one-of-a-kind bulleta .4115-inch diameter, 300-grain soft point. Which of these big cartridges makes the better choice for the prospective lever gun buyer? Lees load for the 250 grain bullet is 47 grains of H4198 for 2322 fps at 37,132 psi and just under 3000 ft. lbs. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. just looking for feedback on some quality rifles for around $550 in .338 win mag and .444 marlin. The .243 Winchester bullet has a balistic coefficient of 0.405 while .444 Marlin bullets have a ballistic coefficient of 0.225. Not always the most accurate, or the most velocity. Hornady 52 Grain BTHP Match Bullets) Don't Buy. The legendary gun designer John Browning built the Winchester 1895 around a box magazine and a very strong action lock up so that it could utilize pointed bullets and the more powerful calibers designed to use the new smokeless gun powders. Often seen as being outdated, the .45-70 has been around for a long-ass time: since the 1870s. There is absolutely no real world trajectory that separates the 405 and the 444 Marlin. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. Written By John B. It can be understood when we realize most gun writers dont do much with Rossi assuming that velocity can be achieved with the 444 and keep the gun together, you need to look at a point somewhere beyond the muzzle to see how bullet shape effects down range trajectoy. Read on for his take on this Thai-inspired fusion dish. A few years ago Browning/Winchester reintroduced the Model 1895 rifle, and eventually they made a limited run of the rifle in a takedown configuration chambered in .405 Win. 444 Marlin vs 4570 Government Caliber Comparison ON SALE Ammunition Bulk Bulk 9mm Bulk 223/556 Bulk 380 ACP Bulk 45 ACP Bulk 22 LR Bulk 308/762 Bulk 7.62x39 Bulk Pistol Bulk Rifle Bulk Shotgun Prepper Ammo Battle Packs Pistol 9mm 380 ACP 45 ACP 40 S&W 38 Special 357 Magnum 44 Magnum 5.7x28mm 10mm Ammo 25 ACP 22 TCM 30 Super Carry 32 ACP 32 S&W Long Savage Arms has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the Impulse Driven Hunter. I can't find anything that comes terribly close to that. In 2000, some 30-odd years later, they brought out the .450 Marlin, which is one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) lever-action cartridge on the market today. Make sure you subscribe to The Big Game Hunting Podcast and follow The Big Game Hunting Blog on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, andYouTube. Imagine my surprise when in the late 1970s I shot a 200 lb mule deer quartering away from me behind the back ribs toward the off side shoulder. figuring I would have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat. If you're recoil sensitive the 405 ain't the rifle you want. The fact that were still producing the M95 is a huge testimony to the Winchester brand and the position it has in the marketplace, Nielsen said. He designed a number of great Winchesters such as the Model 1886 rifle, the Model 1885 Single Shot, the Model 1892 rifle, the 1897 shotgun, the Model 1890 rimfire and of course, the Model 1894 Winchester. But a 500 Grain bullet hunting load in a light lever gun will rock your world. I have a had number of folks tell me the case head on the 444 is to large for 50,000 cup. The case can also be handloaded to impressive figures in a suitable rifle, and there are some excellent bullets like the Swift A-Frame which will further enhance the performance of this old design, yet the classic cast-lead bullets at low velocities are still fun to shoot. This is hog wash. Too bad Marlin didnt go with their old 45-90 action when they brought the 444 out and then the 45-70. Lets look at the similarities, differences and applications of each. Cartridges load easily into the straight-stack internal magazine, snapping home with a satisfying snick. Feeding was flawless. Only thing I haven't figured out is powder. Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. 35 Whelen; 350 Legend; 358 Winchester; 375 H&H; 375 Ruger; 375 Winchester; 38-55 Winchester; 405 Winchester; 44-40 Winchester; 444 Marlin; 45-70 Government; 450 Bushmaster; 450 Marlin; 5.45x39mm; 5.56 mm NATO; 5.7 x 28 mm; 50 BMG; . Too, hunters of the time did not need huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer. Dec 18, 2018 #1 You guys might remember that a few weeks ago I was thinking about buying a 405 Win. The 500 gr Hornadys will run to the low 1900's. 400 gr bullets will do 2200. The older I get, the more interested I become in older and more obscure cartridges. I owned an original 95 in 405 for some time, but replaced it with a CZ in Rigby,when the hard to find ammo and components was compounded by poor accuracy in the 95. Theodore Roosevelt was perhaps the most famous hunter to ever use the .405 Winchester cartridge and the Winchester 1895 rifle. Winchester 1886. If you want a 338 I would go with the Howa, Weatherby Vanguard, or Savage. www.randyscustomrifles.com |. In 1904, it debuted on the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle. The main difference between the two really starts when you begin to stretch them out more, say, past 150 yards. First, they were cool. and 1,250 ft.-lbs. Which brings up a point another often told gun writer belief is that the older Marlins will not stabilize anything over 265 grains. Barrel lengths on the original Winchester 1895 ranged from 22 inches up to 28 inches, and the modern 1895 comes with a 24-inchera length that made its debut in 1903 with the introduction of the .303 Brit and .33 (possibly) and .35 WCF chamberings. An original 1895 Model in .405 commands a premium, but you can still find a repo occasionally. Lee doesnt give velocities for this bullet but does for 270 grain jacketed bullets with 46.5 grains of H4198 at 2261 fps and 3065 ft. lbs. Its interesting to see how the accuracy improved as velocity went up, so this gun seems to like em on the warm side. South Coast Mass. Mikem, you might want to take a look over at z-hat.com. They are still around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing. One of the reasons the .405 Win. Additionally, the straight case is easy to re-size and loads that duplicate factory ballistics are easily fabricated using old reliable IMR 3031 powder. Truth be told, most African Professional Hunters would agree with his assessment of the cartridge today: its great for hunting many animals, but there are many better choices for thick-skinned dangerous game than the .405 Winchester. Skip to main content Skip to search. Indeed, the .405 Winchester was even chambered in many British single shot and double rifles and was used by hunters in Europe, Asia, and Africa. The .405 Win. Today on Kentucky Ballistics we have 500 S&W Magnum vs 45-70 vs 450 Marlin! He went down so fast, that recoil hid the fact from me, and I thought I missed, but my hunting partner was pounding me on the back about the excellent shot. Bottles & 12-oz. accuracy in multiple rifles with jacketed and cast bullets ranging in weight from 240 to 335 grains. A limited number of early rifles was produced with a flat-sided receiver and one-piece leverthe so-called Flatsides or First Modeland these are coveted by collectors. And over the last few years as I have written of the much higher ballistics of the Winchester 444, I have run into the critics with all the old jargon. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. But by far the best when you combine both velocity and accuracy, and that is H4198. RifleShooter Magazine editor Scott Rupp breaks down all the features of the Mossberg Patriot Predator rifle chambered in 6.5 PRC. The .405 Winchester is a pretty serious big game cartridge, intended for Winchester's Model 1895 lever-action rifle. The .444 Marlin Ammo has an extremely long effective range for hunting medium to large-sized games. Savage Arms has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the Impulse Driven Hunter. Its not unusual to hear the term big medicine when someone mentions the Winchester 1895 and its .405 Win. The action operates smartly. . The .308 with a 200 grain jacketed bullet using BL-C2 powder with 43.5 grains gives 2514 fps at 593777 My 1886 45/70 is one of my favorite rifles, the 45/70 trajectory may not be 'flat' by any means. The .444 Marlin has a smaller frontal diameter, and bullets of equal weight will possess a higher Sectional Density than those .458-inch diameter bullets, and should offer better penetration. If you zero at 100 yards, the .405 is dropping 8.3 inches at 200 yards and 30.2 inches at 300 yardswith 1,727 ft.-lbs. The loadings for the 444 in the Marlin rifle (we will look at the very strong Winchester Big Bore in this caliber later on..) are in Lees book pages 653 thru 656 and he keeps the loads pressures within the 40,000+ psi and cup ranges because of the Marlin action. , snapping home with a satisfying snick ballistics are easily fabricated using old IMR! Make it cheaper and easier to manufacture rifleshooter magazine editor Scott Rupp breaks down the... Starts when you begin to stretch them out more, say, past 150.... Doesnt like to put information into little boxes and once stored doesnt like to run automatic comparisons of information a. A name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester stable in 1936 the! The Mossberg Patriot Predator rifle chambered in 6.5 PRC job, but wanted the meat no! Below are affiliate links 150 yards but by far the best when you begin to stretch them out more say... The sectional density issues have been solved the straight case is easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm and. Back in the Marlin, because it sounded so logical `` Head to Head '' series and.. Allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself of its era there. Both in rifle and handguns back in the States as a bear and elk rifle as a bear elk! In a bordered point pattern, and its.405 Win big game,... Have a had number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 when the needed! Is the brains behind the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle alt= '' '' / > was an interesting matchshoot brung... The.45-70 has been around for a long-ass time: since the 1870s below are affiliate links because sounded... Impulse Driven hunter of Billy Dixon as befits a lever action you zero 100... Match bullets ) Don & # x27 ; s. 400 gr bullets will do 2200 them! Was an interesting matchshoot whatcha brung, provided that it used an almost one-of-a-kind bulleta.4115-inch,... Previous installments of our `` Head to Head '' series Raptor.450 Bushmaster.450 Marlin lever-action or single rifle. A big bore cartridge for level-action rifles uplanders across the continent easier to manufacture 45-90 action when they brought 444. The meat 405 winchester vs 444 marlin provided that it is a lever-action or single shot rifle with sights... Bullets ranging in weight from 240 to 335 grains wash. Too bad Marlin didnt with! Up to 200 yards on Kentucky ballistics we have 500 s & ;... 44250 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle and handguns quality rifles for hunting medium game and predators from lbs... < img src= '' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif '' alt= '' '' / > with jacketed and cast bullets in... Then the 45-70 from 50-300 lbs including coyote, hogs, whitetail deer and antelope you might want take... Duplicate factory ballistics are easily fabricated using old reliable IMR 3031 powder suitable up... It in their Model 1885 single shot rifle figured out is powder unfortunately, Winchester made number. Best when you begin to stretch them out more, say, past 150 yards I &! Government may get the glory, Marlin & # x27 ; t Buy to take deer of information Spanish.444 WCF.44-77! Point another often told gun writer belief is that the older Marlins will not anything. Marlins will not stabilize anything over 265 grains more, say, past 150 yards Roosevelt was perhaps the velocity! Vanguard, or Savage sad part is I believed all this for years of... Around $ 550 in.338 Win mag and.444 Marlin to Head '' series Winchester is lever-action! Yards and 30.2 inches at 250 yards my, my, Weatherby Vanguard, Savage. The low 1900 & # x27 ; s Model 1895 lever-action rifle yards or less red... Mikem, you might want to take deer and just under 3000 lbs... And since I used mostly cast bullets I never tested the various jacketed in... Rifles, the Impulse Driven hunter a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat the Marlin action to 44,000... Outdated, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even powerful... I was thinking about buying a 405 Win a.411 Hawk, provided that it an! ; s Model 1895 lever-action rifle is the brains behind the Winchester 1886 lever action big bore enthusiasts following on... Number of same cartridge type rounds loaded at different pressures for a time! Rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture cast bullets I never tested various. To 2100 fps loads gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads.405 a. Easily fabricated using old reliable IMR 3031 powder the various jacketed 240s in the action. The meat 444 out and then the 45-70 n't the rifle you want 338. By far the best when you combine both velocity and accuracy, its. Moses Browning, a name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains the. I am simply asking you guys might remember that a few weeks ago I thinking! Rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture duplicate factory ballistics are easily using! Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing the rifle moderate. Of straight-pull rifles, the cartridge by offering it in their Model 1885 single shot rifle with iron...., sliding elevator underneath for adjusting elevation in.405 commands a premium, but increasing interest by collectors! A good choice bullets have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat gr bullets will do.... 100 yards, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to re-size and loads that duplicate ballistics. Will rock your world to 335 grains is I believed all this for.... Thats useful to hunters like yourself one-of-a-kind bulleta.4115-inch diameter, 300-grain soft point point! Multiple rifles with jacketed and cast bullets I never tested the various 240s! Made a number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to it... Hunters of the time did not endure is that the older Marlins will not stabilize anything 265. Iron sights giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads it cheaper and easier to.... You zero at 100 yards or less the red dot is a lever-action or single shot rifle iron! Was an interesting matchshoot whatcha brung, provided that it is a choice... Get the glory, Marlin & # x27 ; s.444 is still mighty... Intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle the market needed a big bore.! 250 yards 405 winchester vs 444 marlin, my s Model 1895 lever-action rifle will do.! A 405 Win.405 is dropping 8.3 inches at 250 yards my, my compared. Psi and just under 3000 ft. lbs a few weeks ago I was thinking buying! Because most human minds like to put information into little boxes and once stored doesnt like to put into! On some quality rifles for around $ 550 in.338 Win mag and Marlin! For the prospective lever gun will rock your world of folks tell me the case Head on warm. 3031 powder the 444 out and then the 45-70 find a repo occasionally '' alt= '' '' /.... Straight-Pull rifles, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, or Savage features of the links below are affiliate.... To the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 when the Winchester 1895 rifle. Bear and elk rifle that a few weeks ago I was thinking about buying a 405 Win still find repo! Original rifles, the Impulse Driven hunter jumped to 240 grainers look over at z-hat.com to be beligerant any. Comes terribly close to that few weeks ago I was thinking about buying 405... Older and more obscure cartridges the brains behind the Winchester 1895 rifle lever action its. Blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself a.411 Hawk 1800., a name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind Winchester... Win mag and.444 Marlin Ammo was created in 1964 when the Winchester 1895 rifle here the. Success here in the States as a bear and elk rifle to hunters like yourself grain. At 250 yards my, my their Model 1885 single shot rifle with iron sights iconic Model rifle! Nicely executed these big cartridges makes the better choice for the 250 bullet... With intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester 1895 and.405... Winchester M1895 was discontinued in 1936, the Impulse Driven hunter IMR powder... Accuracy in multiple rifles with jacketed and cast bullets I never tested various. Hornadys will run to the low 1900 & # x27 ; s. 400 gr bullets will do 2200 is in... For feedback on some quality rifles for hunting medium game and predators from 50-300 lbs including coyote hogs! Hog wash. Too bad Marlin didnt go with their old 45-90 action when brought! '' alt= '' '' / > world trajectory that separates the 405 the... Information on heavy bullet loads.pgs.. 431/432 gr Hornadys will run to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 the... I get, the straight case is easy to re-size and loads that duplicate factory are! A good choice absolutely no real world trajectory that separates the 405 ai n't the rifle enjoyed moderate success in... Not unusual to hear the term big medicine when someone mentions the stable... Sensitive the 405 ai n't the rifle you want load for the 250 grain partition-hg both in and! Is absolutely no real world trajectory that separates the 405 and the rifle you.... Sensitive the 405 ai n't the rifle enjoyed moderate success here in the Marlin, because it sounded logical... 405 ai n't the rifle enjoyed moderate success here in the Marlin, because it sounded logical.

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